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Manual Politics in Socrates Alcibiades: A Philosophical Account of Platos Dialogue Alcibiades Major

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The argument in the dialogue may suggest that Alcibiades has simply internalized the many's conflicting opinions, as we all do. Socrates launches a second exchange: whoever acts nobly acts well ' eu prattein ' also means to do well or to prosper , whoever acts well is happy. They are happy through the acquisition of good things they acquire through acting nobly and well. Acting well is good and also noble. This argument again makes it appear that the good and noble are the same thing. He offers a third argument which seems to be the first re-stated: those who do just things do noble things, those who do noble things do good things, good things are advantageous -- so those who do just things do what is advantageous Here we see the argument in the form which has the clearest link with the arguments in the Gorgias and the Laws cited earlier.

Plato - Alcibiades - Full audiobook with accompanying text (AudioEbook)

But is not really 'begging' this question; the whole exchange is probably intended to make us think about this question]. Socrates again claims this is all being said by Alcibiades; he himself is affirming nothing, only questioning. The totality of these contradictions constitute the set of problems to be resolved.

How terrible when one becomes lazy in the face of these contradictions!

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At E Alcibiades begins to admit his sad condition: sometimes things seem one way to him but at other times, another. We would never involuntarily answer in opposite ways about things we know, such as how many eyes we have. Socrates draws the conclusion that, since Alcibiades wanders about in his answers concerning the just, the noble, the good and the advantageous, Alcibiades knows none of these things.

This idea does not mean that not wandering in one's answers is a sufficient condition for knowledge, however, only a necessary one. One is reminded of those passages in which Socrates takes pride in 'always the saying the same things about the same things' and chides his interlocutor for not saying the same things about the same things.

One might also connect this issue to the question of knowledge vs.

Only when we know a truth is it 'tied down' sufficiently that we can be sure we will always 'say the same thing about the same things', or that our 'spirited part' will 'preserve the right opinion' about what we must do. Or, rather than saying, as above, that 'Socrates draws the conclusion', strictly speaking, we should note that he elicits this conclusion from Alcibiades.

Plato-- Symposium

Interestingly, Socrates goes on to show how one does not wander about in opinion concerning those things of which one knows clearly that one does not know ; it is not mere ignorance that causes wandering, but ignorance joined with the supposition of wisdom. We ought to entrust what we do not know to those in the crafts who do know There is an implicit political problem and lesson here; who would be those who know about the relevant political matters?

Where would we actually find such 'knowing' 'philosopher-rulers' to rule us? Here, as in the Alcibiades II, the problem of ignorance is linked to going wrong in actions too.

At B-C comes the conclusion of all that has gone before: Alcibiades is the victim of the most extreme form of stupidity; this is why he rushes toward the political things before he has been educated. And in this he is not alone; most of those involved in political life are in the same condition. Those who know can teach others; who has Pericles Alcibiades' guardian was the famous Pericles made wise? Alcibiades objects: what if the two sons of Pericles were born fools. But what about Alcibiades' brother, Kleinias named after their father? Alcibiades dismisses him as a madman.

But what about Alcibiades himself? Why hasn't Pericles educated him? Put in a historical context, this is a telling indictment against Pericles and Periclean democracy.

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But at the same time it should be recalled that however much this may be meant as a criticism of Pericles, Plato also makes it clear in other dialogues that Socrates couldn't educate Alcibiades either! Alcibiades blames himself. Tell me, says Socrates, of anyone Pericles made wiser as I can tell you Kallias and Pythodorus were made wiser by Zeno. Alcibiades cannot. Socrates then asks what he intends to do about his condition.

Alcibiades suggests that they take common counsel; but still he is stubborn. Since most of those in political life are uneducated, why should he bother to educate himself? For when it comes to a contest of natures alone, Alcibiades knows he will win. Socrates says this is unworthy of him and laments for Alcibiades and his own love of Alcibiades; it is a mistake to think the contest is against the human beings here in Athens, that is.


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The true contest is against the real competitors--foreign powers like the Spartans and the Great King the Persians. Alcibiades tries to claim that the Spartan generals and the Persian Kings are no different from the others and also uneducated. But Socrates asks him which supposition would make him take more trouble over himself; clearly, if he supposed them formidable, he would take more trouble.

If he does take trouble he will not be harmed but rather benefitted.

2015.08.23

But his original supposition that the enemy are not formidable is also false apart from leading to the bad consequence of laxity. The Spartans and Persians are well-born, well-endowed by nature, because they are offspring from lines both traceable to Perseus, the son of Zeus. Alcibiades objects: but our line goes back to Zeus too! And Socrates admits his own line also goes back through Dedaelus and Hephaistos to Zeus There was a traditional belief about craftsmen that they were descended from their patron gods. Socrates' father, Sophronicus, was as stone-cutter.